Why Didnt Mark Danielewski Ever Write Anything as Good as House of Leaves Again

Sean O'Kane: So there's a lot going on in commencement volume of The Familiar that feels well-researched. You lot comprehend everything from coding language, to the behavior of LA gangs, to specific video game writers and whether or non they'd brand skillful hires. Obviously you had a lot of time, only where does all that come from?

Mark Danielewski: A lot of living. A lot of it is research, and a lot of it is getting out of the firm, getting out of the fast lane and really just taking one of those foreign exits and sitting down somewhere. For me, it involved going to Singapore, it involved talking to Due east LA gang members. I've always had an interest in technology, and then just being open up to those conversations with engineers, designers. And you know, making a commitment to this project over nine years ago, and at that moment, even though a lot changed, being open up to what would come my way. Whether it was numerous conversations with Armenian cab drivers in Los Angeles, or actually sitting downward with LAPD detectives a bunch of times in that interrogation room that you see on so many television shows and movies; sort of soaking in that environment.

Does that make it hard to know whether or not something belongs in the purview of what The Familiar is going to be, or what it is?

Yeah, and I think that'south where it moves beyond merely writing into a more vocational way of living. It encourages a practice of being open up, of listening, and most of all finding a way of existence comfortable most beingness uncertain, because it's impossible to tell at a certain moment. At present and then you get these fiddling gems, just often things that suddenly are of import aren't recognized every bit being important until maybe even a couple of years later. Say yous had a moment, and you were open to the vitality of the story that was being told, the word that was being conveyed, just you didn't necessarily place it somewhere, and nonetheless, two rewrites after, suddenly this moment comes to life, and that's how it happens.

I think the thing is you don't desire to over-insist, either. I've practiced tai-chi for a number of years — I consider myself a very skilful beginner [laughs] — but one of the phrases I've always loved is "four ounces of pressure." That'southward all you need. If you're positioned right, if you've good the form right, you in theory don't need more than than those four ounces. And I think the same way goes with the feel of writing this book. There are moments to exert pressure, but then there are moments to allow that pressure pass through you. Because of its scope, and because of the amount of time that's gone into it, the weight of information technology is this accretion of merely smaller details. Pixels, fractals, building upwardly into this rainstorm.

"It's not most chop-chop moving through plot."

That'due south what I really loved about where Volume 1 ended, and the ride along the way. It'south a different tone, just it reminds me of the HBO show Treme, which is really about these niggling details of different lives, and whether or not they ever cross isn't actually the point.

One of the questions that I got at a reading last night was, "How practise you know it's 27 volumes? How do y'all know it'due south that long?" And without getting into specifics of the number, the indicate is that at a certain moment this novel settled into the voice of those narratives that are concerned more than with the lives of the characters — the life of the mind of those characters — than simply chewing through story.

Treme I haven't watched, merely I'thou looking forward to [it]. But certainly ane tin think of similar, The Wire, which is similar in the mode it just slowly builds up this sense of the metropolis, and the sense of the individuals that live there. It'south not well-nigh rapidly moving through plot. And one time I realized that that was really where these characters lived, and how this story would unfold, then it became tied to a unlike pace, a unlike tempo.

I love when a infinite is kind of opened upwards. And that happens a lot with novels. People have begun to sort of look novels to be around 300 pages, and to be paced accordingly. It's important to go on pushing into new spaces.

A page from ane of Xanther's chapters.

I think at a reading in 2006 yous talked about how, to make Merely Revolutions, you were laying out giant versions of the pages on your flooring. Was anything like that done for The Familiar? Or was it a more traditional process?

No definitely non. [Laughs] I'thousand trying to tease on what the epitome would exist but, Only Revolutions was then unto itself, the story of two gods who were very much oblivious of the world around them, and we were literally post-obit them on their ego trip. When I was done with that I said to myself, "I never want to pass this way again." This was an experience that was too closed off, and despite beingness a report of the cost of narcissism it as well inflicted in some ways those costs upon me. And so I really wanted to open up the windows and the doors, and that involved letting more and more people into this.

We simply finished Volume 2 [of The Familiar], and there is at present this kind of breezy [product visitor] Atelier Z where where people are actually working. The unabridged act construction of Book 2 is mapped out, all the graphics were being tracked. We had diverse walls pinned with the affiliate splash pages, tracing the graphics, the rainstorm, seeing the progression of how the words were being incorporated into those designs, what those words were.

It took a long time to figure out what the domestic dog ears were going to be for each grapheme, and sort of studying the characters on a textual level. And as well discussing the parameters of what their colors would exist, and how that would play out. And this is the role that was so difficult — not just in Book 1, which now seems easy — just how is the cover blueprint, how are those dog ear designs, how is all of it going to play out over 27 volumes?

But I really enjoyed that collaborative element, and fifty-fifty though I was constantly writing the book on my ain, the ability to, in these x or 12 60 minutes days, to shift gears for a couple of hours and step in as a kind of fine art director to work on sure chapters and certain visual ideas was thrilling for me. And some of it comes downward to a lifestyle in some ways; you're doing this work only at the same time you lot tin reward yourself with a night out of adept pizza and bowling, and find yourself in conversations nigh other projects that people are involved in.

Whether you similar Only Revolutions or not, it's so of itself and unto itself it really doesn't intendance if anyone likes it or not. Whereas this book, the reader is very much similar Xanther in scooping up this very fragile thing that may or may not be live, that may or may not have a future, only has somehow called itself into existence, and into an existence that depends wholly on the rescuing hands of the future.

It's almost, to me, contrary of House of Leaves, which had this almost mythical quality to it. It didn't demand readers, it was going to be no matter what. But I know you lot've said in other interviews how The Familiar needs acceptance early on for the whole thing to go on.

House of Leaves is a different beast. It also finishes itself. But I wouldn't even say that I'm the dominance on the experience of [The Familiar] because I can't actually imagine Volume 1 just equally Book ane. I mean, Volume 2 is finished, 10 have been written. The universe of these characters sort of swims through my listen in a sort of holographic way.

Information technology'southward funny because I do know the book well plenty to know that it doesn't depend on everyone, it isn't going to be for everyone. Only information technology will be for those readers who bask the many layers, enjoy talking about the many layers. I think there's a lot to be had virtually discussing the book'south connectivity, and that certainly would be the greatest success for me, if it did kind of encourage that kind of chat.

You say you've had more help on this than previous works. Does it ever feel like you're in the cast of a motion-picture show series like The Avengers, thinking "Oh homo, why did I sign upward for half dozen of these? Nosotros couldn't have washed three and then an option?"

Well I tin can't say what my publisher feels similar, because they know as little equally I practise. [Laughs] And that's the exciting role, because nosotros really don't know how this is going to come up to life. In that sense it'south terrifying for a big company, simply at the same time it'due south besides exciting because information technology's something new. And in terms of the people that work with me, information technology's not a muzzle. The windows are always open up, the doors open — it's non a career. Then the only one that's actually signed up for those many, many volumes is the guy you're talking to. And it can feel like an extraordinary long and liberating journey, and at times it can besides feel similar a punishing cage. I think if yous're willing to raise your head and extract yourself from the firsthand distractions of the day-to-day, you realize that life is like that, as well. In some sense, we're lucky to walk the path every bit long as we walk. And at the same time, that can be bewildering if we find ourselves in moments of pain or unhappiness. For me, the book is life, and my life is the book. I have to brand peace with that, and I practice. Every, every day.

I can only imagine, fifty-fifty with respective successes in the past, there beingness anticipation when you bring an idea like this to the tabular array with a publisher. But information technology's also a publisher you've worked with, so in that location must be some familiarity and trust where they're willing to go into a project of this scope, right?

You nailed it, and in fact I feel incredibly fortunate. I'chiliad lucky to exist working many of the aforementioned people that I worked on Business firm of Leaves with. I happen to also take landed at the best identify for this kind of stuff. [My publisher] Pantheon is incredible in doing graphic novels, and so they have an intense, intimate familiarity with not only press elaborate, very color-specific, design-specific pieces, but equally well as transferring information technology to an electronic platform. Every bit y'all know, technology is constantly altering, so it's hard to find that one electronic design that can seamlessly motion across various platforms, merely Pantheon is invested in that and it's exciting. For me, the ur-form is really the book, the codex in your hands.

This is the 2nd book of yours to have an e-version, correct? The Fifty Year Sword was the first?

Yeah, and because [The Fifty Year Sword] was then much smaller it was a existent opportunity to kind of explore that. And actually information technology came with a lot of warnings, for me, because we did some animations, we included original music, and it was an enormous amount of work. I started to realize that in many ways it's a different profession. For this one, because it was coming out simultaneously, there were certain limits on what we could do, and the point was only to represent it as clearly as possible.

The eastward-version of Only Revolutions volition be coming out in late summer, and that comes complete with original music, over 300 road signs to assistance y'all forth the way, and in many ways it's presenting a volume that's not similar the three-dimensional printed version. But information technology takes advantage of how one could read that book differently.

Business firm of Leaves we would like to do, simply information technology's an even bigger project, so that will probably come up later. Simply nosotros're angling toward information technology.

Even 10 years ago I remember arguments raged virtually whether office, or all, of House of Leaves should be made into a film. As yous transition some of these works in dissimilar media, is there a line y'all know y'all wouldn't push it past?

Non really. I certainly have laid down my own "nevers" early on and I pretty much stuck to that. There was always interest into turning House of Leaves into a film. I recall I'thousand at the point where, to be involved with a corporation like a studio that wanted to buy something, for me it just looks like a mess. If David Fincher or P.T. Anderson came to me and said, "Hey, I've read your book and I actually want to talk about it," am I going to have that conversation? Absolutely. But that'south not something that's, correct now, on the horizon.

"Am I going to have that chat? Absolutely."

I think the biggest thing — and it'due south not really a negative — is that I'm committed to this project, and this projection takes upward about every moment of my free time. To suddenly do something else, which would require ample amount of time, is only not available to me. I don't have the resources to exercise that. I'm with Xanther and her family, and that's where I'grand going to stay.

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Source: https://www.theverge.com/2015/6/9/8660703/mark-danielewski-interview-the-familiar-house-of-leaves

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